Southern  UK Jive Forum Index Southern UK Jive
Share Jive Experiences and Opinions
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 
Go to the Southern UK Jive Calendar
Ceroc at Dorchester

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Southern UK Jive Forum Index -> Jiver Soapbox
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Michael H
Casual Poster


Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 39
Location: Bournemouth

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:15 pm    Post subject: Ceroc at Dorchester Reply with quote

We want to state from the start that we are not against Ceroc opening up new venues.

What we cannot understand is their opening up a new venue in direct competition with an existing established independent jive organisation in a small town where there is a limited amount of jivers, and therefore threaten the livelihood of the established independent. Ceroc have significant financial backing – they’re a big organisation – and therefore can better resist bad times.

But in Dorchester Russell’s RedHotRhythm independent jive organisation must be feeling the economic pinch, and with Ceroc opening up in direct competition – same venue, next night we believe - Russell could find times much harder in the future.

This is a different approach than in Bournemouth where Ceroc purchased an existing jive organisation and therefore co-exist with other existing independent jive organisations in the area, and therefore do not threaten them. Ethically and morally is that not the better way to do it?

For the point of view of all local jivers surely it is in the best interest of jive per se for independent operators to exist. Jive benefits from the greater choice of moves, teaching and dance styles of the independents, but also Ceroc benefits from this as the standard of jive locally is driven up. And because the dedicated/ good jivers from independents travel far and wide to attend Ceroc freestyles and weekenders.

There is also the question of Kelly’s JiveRiot established pre-Christmas freestyle at Dorchester which is severely threatened by the recently arranged Ceroc opening freestyle on the same date that is free! Kelly is a small operator and in no way can match that free offer. We sincerely hope that any future Ceroc freestyles in Dorchester will be on different weekends than the established jive organisations freestyles.

Please Ceroc co-exist for the greater benefit of jive.

Michael & Janice Henry
Bournemouth

Declaration: We are property developers and have no connection whatsoever with any jive organisation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Andy McGregor
Forum legend


Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 393
Location: Brighton/Shoreham by Sea

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they were both members of the LeRoc Federation Ceroc would have been in breach of the constitution. It's clearly stated the members can't open in venues run by other members. Ceroc are not part of LeRoc.

Of course it's a competitive business and Ceroc are not bound by anything but the law.

You could ask venue operators to give you exclusivity but they are in business too and may want to turn down the offer of rental income. Those venues are likely to make only short-term gains as it's probable that only one class will survive.

On the other hand, competition is good for customers. It drives up quality and drives down price. And it gives consumers a choice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Happy Camper
Newbie


Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know why you seem surprised, Michael H, it's been obvious for quite a while that Ceroc have intentions to make a monopoly out of jive dancing. They are virtualy a corporate entity, driven by money, who use their resources to draw dancers away from other organisations in an attempt to put them out of business. The smaller organisations cannot hope to compete with Ceroc and they either give up or become swallowed up over time as more of their customers defect. I'm not saying that Ceroc is a bad organisation or that they don't host good events, I'm just voicing what i think many people believe about Ceroc and their ambitions. I beleive that there should be room for Ceroc and other organisations to give dancers more choice and Ceroc should not use predatory and bullying tactics to try and take over the jive market.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Southern Jiver
Site Admin


Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 1656
Location: New Forest

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a tricky issue and one that has been discussed before with differing levels of vitriol. Personally, I enjoy both Ceroc venues/events and most other, shall we say, non-Ceroc venues/events. Admittedly, Ceroc is a large, franchised organization with plenty of clout but, above all, like the non-Ceroc organisations, they are a business which operates to make money. That said, there are ways to conduct business that don't upset people. The bottom line for these organisations is based on the number of people who pass through their doors. Jivers are free to choose which doors they pass through and if there are enough of them to enable all the organisations to prosper then no-one suffers. However, I'm sure I'm not alone in my preference to be able to choose to go either to a Ceroc venue/event or a non-Ceroc venue/event and I would be very sad if existing non-Ceroc organisations folded because Ceroc muscled into areas where non-Ceroc organisations have established a clientele and the non-Ceroc organisations became no longer financially viable.
_________________
"We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance."
~Japanese Proverb
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Steve
Forum legend


Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 358

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This independant night is not free and not a charity night I presume?
So in a situation like this I don't see why any independant organisations would expect special treatment. They are in it to make money as well. They are "businesses" too.

Given those facts, it's a bit self-serving to hold one business to higher moral standards than every other business. IMO that is unfair.




It's a bit of a different issue, but veterans will remember that Ceroc was muscled out by the independants in this area originally anyway. Nothing is being done here that independants haven't done in spades to Ceroc in times gone past.
_________________
My local WCS dance guide: http://www.southernjive.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=726
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Enigma
Newbie


Joined: 01 Aug 2009
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deary me, this old chestnut. I welcome it - the more venues the better! Whoever they are.

Can I just point out Dance Yourself Dizzy, which is arguably a growing and expanding business within the area, opening in a Ceroc freestyle venue (Minstead) on exactly the same night as a Ceroc class (Bramshaw) - and the non-response of jivers?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I do wish they'd be consistent.

I'd also just like to say that I have nothing against Danny - I've danced at Winchester and Totton often enough! He just happens to be the basis for my example.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TVguy
Casual Poster


Joined: 23 Sep 2010
Posts: 27
Location: Ringwood

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Brother in-law ran a Ceroc franchise many moons ago and their plan is to take over and put everyone else out of business, so for those people who do like lots of variety, you need to support your independent organiser more.
It wouldn’t be so bad if Ceroc played fair but they don`t. One example would be my comment from DR under Oscars listing for their Christmas jive

DR wrote:
Cerocfever's Winter Wonderland at the fabulous Barton Hall on the same date - no contest really..

No contest really??? Totally out of order statement and to add it to someone eles listing is just damned right rude. This is just one example of poor business from these people.

Before the Ceroc fans come in with there size twelves, I am not against Ceroc and I do go to their freestyles, I am just against the way they do things and the example above is what I am talking about. Out of principle I would not go to the Ceroc Christmas do.

If they played fair, they would have a better reputation
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DJ Andy
Frequent Poster


Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 198
Location: Portsmouth

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TVguy wrote:
It wouldn’t be so bad if Ceroc played fair but they don`t. One example would be my comment from DR under Oscars listing for their Christmas jive
DR wrote:
Cerocfever's Winter Wonderland at the fabulous Barton Hall on the same date - no contest really..
No contest really??? Totally out of order statement and to add it to someone eles listing is just damned right rude. This is just one example of poor business from these people.


I hadn't noticed this before, but I agree that it is uncalled for, and bad forum etiquette. Shocked
_________________
DJ - ModernJivePortsmouth
www.ModernJivePortsmouth.co.uk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
DJ Bry
Frequent Poster


Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 104
Location: Dorset

PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

May I give a few facts!

Ceroc was in Dorchester 1994 to late 1999 or early turn of the century.

Ceroc operated on a Monday night and towards the end was a franchise to Mark Gerard (now Pegasis Disco). Kieran Loftus was the Instructor.

Ceroc also operated in Weymouth as well.

Mo' Jive set up a Tuesday night in oposition at the same venue in Dorchester in about 2000?. Mo'Jive were formerly a Ceroc franchise and then gave up the franchise to start up thier own company.

Mark Gerard gave up the Ceroc franchise and operated on his own shortly after Mo'jive opened. Later he gave up both Weymouth and Dorchester nights as the Mo'Jive Tuesday was so popular.

I could go on and on and on, also about Exeter and other places.

So does anyone have a right to any Town or Venue?.

Would like to hear any other Operators or Customers views!!
_________________
Freelance Teacher & DJ.
Dancers usually live longer, so go for it!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Philsmove
Regular


Joined: 25 Jul 2009
Posts: 65
Location: Bristol

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy McGregor wrote:
If they were both members of the LeRoc Federation Ceroc would have been in breach of the constitution. .


DJ Baby wrote:
So does anyone have a right to any Town or Venue?.



My own business experience (nothing to do with Modern Jive ) is that cartels, apart from being illegal , don't work and simply open the door to competitors who are not part of the Cartel

As we have discussed before, most dancers are not really interested if a venue is run by *** Jive ,Leroc or Ceroc, we are not interested politics, we are go to the dance or class, that offers good value for money and is an excellent night out
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
DJ Bry
Frequent Poster


Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 104
Location: Dorset

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have had a few older jivers (like me) comment on my post of facts!
l
They want to know was there and who were any other Jive Instructors in the early days of Ceroc in Weymouth and Dorchester.

I remember them well, in Dorchester there was Jamie, sorry dont know his full name, but he had a long pony tail.

Another Ceroc Instructor was Steve Taco, who was mainly with Mark Gerard and stayed with Mark when the Ceroc franchise was dropped and Mark became an Independent. I was at both nights when Mark anounced he was closing Weymouth, then some time later he closed Dorchester.

Steve started his own Jive Club after that in Weymouth and its still going. So a previous Ceroc Instructor became an Indepandent but by default in a sence.

Hope this helps those who asked. Maybe SJ will consider a New Forum Post of 'FACTS' or 'HISTORY OF MODERN JIVE'.
_________________
Freelance Teacher & DJ.
Dancers usually live longer, so go for it!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Southern Jiver
Site Admin


Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 1656
Location: New Forest

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DJ Bry wrote:
Maybe SJ will consider a New Forum Post of 'FACTS' or 'HISTORY OF MODERN JIVE'.
Hmm, DJ Bry....that's not a bad idea. It would be quite good fun to put together a history of Modern Jive in the Southern area. However, it would rely totally on people's input. So...if anyone has some interesting "Facts" about the history of Jive in the Southern Area, please feel free to post them on the new thread "History of Modern Jive in the Southern Area". Laughing
_________________
"We're fools whether we dance or not, so we might as well dance."
~Japanese Proverb
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Southern UK Jive Forum Index -> Jiver Soapbox All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group